Curse

Hello Thar · Jul 15, 2005, 03:38 PM // 15:38

The funny thing is, it only takes one or two skills to shut a Warrior down, then you can leave him be for quite somewhile.

However, with a caster, you constantly have to have someone working him. For example, say I'm playing and energy denial Mesmer. I can't leave the monk and forget about him for 20 seconds and expect him to still be doing nothing. But with warrior, you throw on a skill or 2 and they are shutdown. /goodbye balance

You don't have to pack your whole skill bar with warrior skills, just bring one and have your other party member bring another.

CaptainGuru · Jul 15, 2005, 06:30 PM // 18:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aranador

Shutting down a warrior is 'easy' - IF you bring along the skills. So you stuff your skill bar with a slow, and a weakness, and a AC buff, and a damage reducing buff, and a snare.

You don't have to gear yourself to take out a warrior, you know that was BS the moment you typed it. Ranger's don't bring Pin-Down to stop warriors from running at them, they bring pin-down to stop spellcasters from running. It just so happens that Pin-Down is effective against warriors too because they weren't given passive defensive measurements to do it.

Same with choking gas and distracting shot. Both are used against spellcasters, but they are effective against warriors as well since most warriors have a spellcaster as their secondary.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aranador

You know what happens to a caster that doesnt do something to stop a warrior? They get butchered. And then they get called a noob.

A pair of Elementalists (2 to 4 of them) can kill a warrior with a few spike damage spells, which just so happens those spike damage spells can also be used to kill other classes effectively.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aranador

If warriors were useless as you say, then people would truely igore them, but they dont ignore them, they spend effort to disable them.

As I said in my last topic, if any class, especially the ranger, attacks the warrior, it's because that warrior is an easy kill.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aranador

The fact that disabling casters is a lot harder doesnt make casters more powerful, or warriors weaker - rather it points out that warriors are actually a much greater threat if they are uncountered.

No, it doesn't because you haven't provided a logical why. In other words, you fail to provide the "because." analogy. Provide some experience in case scenario happening more than once.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aranador

By the way - monks heal damage from elementalists too, they dont just foil warriors.

Again, when you "theory fight," you do so by making both equations equal. So if the warrior has a monk then elementalist has a mesmer or ranger. Also a fast casting lightning elementalist can do a lot of damage before the monk can respond.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aranador

You really want to be feared by casters? Bring a hammer and learn how to knock lock someone.

Pacifism will stop any warrior dead in his tracks, protective spirit & Mark of Protection will reduce damage and finally any monk with a brain will run around.

smitty-gw · Jul 15, 2005, 06:41 PM // 18:41

Warriors have skills to disrupt spellcasters. Their attacks are adrenaline dependent which no other class has and allows for better management of their low base energy.

A secondary monk profession also provides spells to remove conditions and hexes. Healing should be left to the team monks.

I do agree however that another melee-type class should have been introduced. The classes are too heavily caster weighted.

Just an opinion of course.

Linkie · Jul 15, 2005, 11:48 PM // 23:48

Hammer Warriors are the best shutdown.

Age · Jul 16, 2005, 03:52 AM // 03:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Linkie

Hammer Warriors are the best shutdown.

I was going to mention that although my 2 Warrior use swords I do have a hammer ready with 2 melee skills that I can use for both and I have points in attributes mostly in sword but some in hammer.

Thomasuwoo · Jul 16, 2005, 05:57 PM // 17:57

All you need is a sprint and a nice dmg atatck like Protectors strike, desperation blow, bulls strike etc. and people running from your warriror is a joy.

2-4 spikes? Was the warrior naked or something? Even without an enchantments on him he should have taken more of a beating then that. And that was assuming there was no monks healing him.

I love you invicible spikers by the way. One natures renewal to remove you attunments and precious monk buffs and two warrios can have your whole team on ur arse in no time.

A freindly monk can always remvoe cripled from a warrior. I find it interesting that everyone says warriors are so easy to kill when you are all assuming that they are on their own. Put one warrior against one ele.
Then again we come back to that any class with the right set of skills can beat any class.

If anyone here has a problem with their war let me know and I'd be glad to offer some advice.

Sniper22 · Jul 16, 2005, 07:32 PM // 19:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hello Thar

I never said anything about 1 vs 1. Every class in this game is better than warrior at PvP. Warriors can be countered too easily. Almost every class (save Necroe, I believe) has a skill that lowers melee hit rate by 75%. Couple that with the fact that they can easily be blinded and have weakness applied.

I'll take your word for it, you do 60-70 hit each time every time when you hit, but how are you going to hit when you are dealing with blindness, ward against melee, and a spell or stance that lowers your hit rate by 75%? Couple that with the Hammers slow attack rate, you have easily and effectively been shut down (keep and mind these skills are usually spammable).

To get rid of weakness or blindness, many necro and monk skills can get rid of conditions. To get rid of stances use wild blow (i think). To get rid of enchants use strip enchantment or many other choices. For ward of melee just use skills that can't be evaded, rigor mortis helps too. Kill the casters by dazing them with skullcrack and interrupt all their skills.

Mithie · Jul 17, 2005, 03:27 AM // 03:27

I have no problems in PVP with my warrior. You do have a point in that there are many counters to warriors than there are any other class, but you're neglecting 2 things:

1. Warriors can shut down any other class JUST as easily.
2. Conditions/hexes can be removed by a competent supporting team member.

SOT · Jul 17, 2005, 03:39 AM // 03:39

My newest build is a warrior/necromancer. I have been playing with "her" for 2 days, reached level 12 nearly, ran all the way up to Yak's bend without crossing the mission proper, and have completed literally HALF of all missions up there.

I have died twice.

It depends on how you use your abilities, and which one's you equip, and the timing on their use. I recommend some combo's

CaptainGuru · Jul 17, 2005, 04:34 PM // 16:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Linkie

Hammer Warriors are the best shutdown.

They suck dude. You're talking to a Mesmer expert who blind warriors for a living with Ineptitude.

All you need is a sprint and a nice dmg atatck like Protectors strike, desperation blow, bulls strike etc. and people running from your warriror is a joy.

Snares ignore sprint and you have to be catious that a mesmer doesn't use you as a energy source.

2-4 spikes? Was the warrior naked or something? Even without an enchantments on him he should have taken more of a beating then that. And that was assuming there was no monks healing him.

Monks can't heal that fast, noob. I don't know if you know this, but there are groups of elementalist in pvp that are coordinated enough to throw spike damage at one target at the same time with lightning orb. I'm pretty you sure you've never witness your monk fall over a split second after the elementalists enter the area. The most dangerous group you can go up against is a group of lightning me/els with two monks.

Secondly, Enchantments can be removed. Necromancers and mesmers are good at that. And while removing enchantments they can also do damage to you or steal energy.

I love you invicible spikers by the way. One natures renewal to remove you attunments and precious monk buffs and two warrios can have your whole team on ur arse in no time.

It almost limits the monks on your team. Mesmer are still somewhat useful even with Nature's Renewal up. I only take two or three hexes and use mostly energy shutdown spells.

A freindly monk can always remvoe cripled from a warrior. I find it interesting that everyone says warriors are so easy to kill when you are all assuming that they are on their own. Put one warrior against one ele.
Then again we come back to that any class with the right set of skills can beat any class.

A monk can't heal you r warrior if he had mesmer hexing him or stealing his energy nor can he heal your warrior if he is pin down with choking gas. You're looking at a fight from a one sided perspective.

And this goes back to what I said, earlier, someone has to open the door of opportunity to a warrior for him to do anything.

CaptainGuru · Jul 17, 2005, 05:03 PM // 17:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mithie

1. Warriors can shut down any other class JUST as easily.
2. Conditions/hexes can be removed by a competent supporting team member.

1. Sympathetic Visage and Soothing Images say different. With those two spells I can shutdown your ability to gain aderaline. Faintheartedness and Shadow of Fear will slow your attack rate down, making it almost impossible to do any real damage.

2. Your monk is always the first person to be attacked. There is no doubt about that so don't think you'll get an immediate heal.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sniper22

To get rid of weakness or blindness, many necro and monk skills can get rid of conditions.

Monks can remove conditions that are applied directly or indirectly. Necromancers can only remove direct conditions. So if you get blinded as a warrior, the only person who can help you is the monk, if he isn't being taken. I can tell by the sound of some of these post that some of you guys have never been in a real fight with a coordinated team. A coordinated team will go after your monk first.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sniper22

To get rid of stances use wild blow (i think).

Wild Blow is useless. Not that it can't get rid of stances, it just that Wild Blow takes away the one thing that makes a warrior useful and that's aderaline. If you use WB, all your aderaline is good, which the move incredible stupid. Secondly, most people who stances are rangers and they only use it to run faster or plant a trap at your feet. You won't know someone is using a stance until after the first two attacks are dodged or blocked.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sniper22

To get rid of enchants use strip enchantment or many other choices.

Strip Enchantment kills you are force to remove multiple enchantments. Descrecate Enchantment is better since it does damage to your enemy and not yourself. Finally, Mesmer enchantment removers take so long recharge that a spellcaster will have already reapply that enchantment.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sniper22

For ward of melee just use skills that can't be evaded, rigor mortis helps too.

Rigor Mortis takes two seconds to be cast and any Ranger or Mesmer will tell you that a spell that take more than 1 second to cast is going to get interrupted. Even if you do land the spell, it takes an extra 12 seconds to use it again. The only real skills that can't be evaded by a warrior are Warrior's cunning, Wild Blow, Seeking Blade and pure strike, but PS and Seeking Blade are energy based so they can't keep it up all day. Wild Blow doesn't end spells and Warrior's Cunning takes 60 seconds to recharge to be used again.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sniper22

Kill the casters by dazing them with skullcrack and interrupt all their skills.

You use premade builds don't you?

Sniper22 · Jul 17, 2005, 07:13 PM // 19:13

No lol, I make my own char, and one of the professions i fear worse with my necro are hammer warriors. Dude be a W/N get rid of the blindess. How many people carry around faintheartedness and shadow of fear as a necro too. Maybe just one of them but not both. So there are times when ward of melee and other skills may make you a bit useless, big deal. And 2 secs isn't a long casting time, 95% of the time i cast lingering curse (3 sec) it works. They are focusing on the monks, not you. If you are a W/N no one would really no you are casting rigor mortis cause those rangers and busy with the monks. And for wild blow, you would rather save up your adrenelin when you can't even use it than end a stance!? There are many times when spell casters feel useless too. Umm let me think backfire? Soul Leech? Energy draining skills!? Many interruptions! Every profession can be shutdown, not just warriors. I'm not a warrior, but they aren't as bad as you say they are.

Thomasuwoo · Jul 17, 2005, 07:15 PM // 19:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by CaptainGuru

They suck dude. You're talking to a Mesmer expert who blind warriors for a living with Ineptitude.

All you need is a sprint and a nice dmg atatck like Protectors strike, desperation blow, bulls strike etc. and people running from your warriror is a joy.

Snares ignore sprint and you have to be catious that a mesmer doesn't use you as a energy source.

If the mesmer wants to drain me rather then my teams monk that's fine by me.

Quote:

Originally Posted by CaptainGuru

2-4 spikes? Was the warrior naked or something? Even without an enchantments on him he should have taken more of a beating then that. And that was assuming there was no monks healing him.

Monks can't heal that fast, noob. I don't know if you know this, but there are groups of elementalist in pvp that are coordinated enough to throw spike damage at one target at the same time with lightning orb. I'm pretty you sure you've never witness your monk fall over a split second after the elementalists enter the area. The most dangerous group you can go up against is a group of lightning me/els with two monks.

Secondly, Enchantments can be removed. Necromancers and mesmers are good at that. And while removing enchantments they can also do damage to you or steal energy.

You're talking to someone who takes random peeps and forms a build to win in the tombs. So I'll thank you not to call me noob. Once again If the eles wanna waste their time spiking me rather then the monk that's fine. A res sig and I'm back. And I'm well awear of the frozen soil trick. Works lovely when we're running nauters renewal. Eles loese their attuments, burn their mana on one or two targets, then get torn apart. Suddenly that frozen soil doesn't seem like the best plan.

The so called Spiker build being the most dangerous makes me laugh. 90% of the time we have this group down in under 2 mins. Once again if you want to waste your time spiking the warrior instead of the monk/casters be my guest.

Quote:

Originally Posted by CaptainGuru

I love you invicible spikers by the way. One natures renewal to remove you attunments and precious monk buffs and two warrios can have your whole team on ur arse in no time.

It almost limits the monks on your team. Mesmer are still somewhat useful even with Nature's Renewal up. I only take two or three hexes and use mostly energy shutdown spells.

Not if they are prepared for it. And you think we're going to stop at once natures renewal? That's what Oath shot is for.

Quote:

Originally Posted by CaptainGuru

A freindly monk can always remvoe cripled from a warrior. I find it interesting that everyone says warriors are so easy to kill when you are all assuming that they are on their own. Put one warrior against one ele.
Then again we come back to that any class with the right set of skills can beat any class.

A monk can't heal you r warrior if he had mesmer hexing him or stealing his energy nor can he heal your warrior if he is pin down with choking gas. You're looking at a fight from a one sided perspective.

And this goes back to what I said, earlier, someone has to open the door of opportunity to a warrior for him to do anything.

So how is it hard for someone to open a "door of opertunity?" How many teams do you see with ONE monk? By your thery you need one mesmer per monk. There are alot of skill combinations that make wars useful and They are usually last on most players kill list. Hell if you think we need a buff be my guest.

KuTeBaka · Jul 17, 2005, 09:14 PM // 21:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by CaptainGuru

They suck dude. You're talking to a Mesmer expert who blind warriors for a living with Ineptitude.

All you need is a sprint and a nice dmg atatck like Protectors strike, desperation blow, bulls strike etc. and people running from your warriror is a joy.

Snares ignore sprint and you have to be catious that a mesmer doesn't use you as a energy source.

2-4 spikes? Was the warrior naked or something? Even without an enchantments on him he should have taken more of a beating then that. And that was assuming there was no monks healing him.

Monks can't heal that fast, noob. I don't know if you know this, but there are groups of elementalist in pvp that are coordinated enough to throw spike damage at one target at the same time with lightning orb. I'm pretty you sure you've never witness your monk fall over a split second after the elementalists enter the area. The most dangerous group you can go up against is a group of lightning me/els with two monks.

Secondly, Enchantments can be removed. Necromancers and mesmers are good at that. And while removing enchantments they can also do damage to you or steal energy.

I love you invicible spikers by the way. One natures renewal to remove you attunments and precious monk buffs and two warrios can have your whole team on ur arse in no time.

It almost limits the monks on your team. Mesmer are still somewhat useful even with Nature's Renewal up. I only take two or three hexes and use mostly energy shutdown spells.

A freindly monk can always remvoe cripled from a warrior. I find it interesting that everyone says warriors are so easy to kill when you are all assuming that they are on their own. Put one warrior against one ele.
Then again we come back to that any class with the right set of skills can beat any class.

A monk can't heal you r warrior if he had mesmer hexing him or stealing his energy nor can he heal your warrior if he is pin down with choking gas. You're looking at a fight from a one sided perspective.

And this goes back to what I said, earlier, someone has to open the door of opportunity to a warrior for him to do anything.

EVERY single counter you said had to do with a hex, there are hex removals out there, just use one and get a martyr prot monk on your team, hexes and conditions are gone.

OMG so what if 4 eles can take down a warrior, those 4 eles are now easy targets for the other 7 people on the team.

Mercury Angel · Jul 17, 2005, 09:50 PM // 21:50

In the past, teams of wa/mo's and 2-3 monks were the dominant teams.

Since then, while many individual things have changed, the game has remained largely in tact.

Do you mean to tell me that warriors since then were gimped severely to all of a sudden go from "OMG!!!1!1! Skilless wa/mo korean team pwned us. wa/mo's are overpowered!!!!11!" to being incredibly underpowered?

I'm sorry, but I just can't believe that that much has changed since then.

Warriors will have their turn again, I'm sure. It's only a matter of time.

CaptainGuru · Jul 17, 2005, 11:26 PM // 23:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thomasuwoo

You're talking to someone who takes random peeps and forms a build to win in the tombs. So I'll thank you not to call me noob. Once again If the eles wanna waste their time spiking me rather then the monk that's fine. A res sig and I'm back. And I'm well awear of the frozen soil trick. Works lovely when we're running nauters renewal. Eles loese their attuments, burn their mana on one or two targets, then get torn apart. Suddenly that frozen soil doesn't seem like the best plan.

Again, you’ve obviously never been up against a spike damage group. Most Lightning spells are 10 energy and lightning spell can be cast within a 1 second. A Me/E with Fast Casting with a rank 5 to 10 can cast those spells almost instantly and they can get up to 49 to 52 energy without enchantments. This means if they are coordinated enough, they can take out 4 to 5 people within 5 to 10 seconds. You speak of Res Signets…by the time you’re ressed by a signet, at least 2 to 3 people are dead in your group cause it takes 4 seconds to res you with a signet.

Oh by the way, takes 8 second with a monk res to bring a person back to life.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thomasuwoo

If the mesmer wants to drain me rather then my teams monk that's fine by me.

In case where you are a warrior/monk draining your gauge can leave you without the ability to heal yourself unless you chain enchant. Also with the energy, the mesmer steals from you, he can empower his hex spells to use against your monks. So having a non-noob mesmer stealing energy from you is no laughing matter.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thomasuwoo

So how is it hard for someone to open a "door of opertunity?" How many teams do you see with ONE monk?

Two to three monks (Third being a protection monk), but this doesn’t stop teams from losing. Most of the teammates will aim for one monk and the mesmer will aim for the second. The first monk has 50/50 chance of getting away if no one has a snare. The second monk won’t be so lucky because his hand will be forced because the other monk will need healing. If he doesn’t heal his monk teammate, he’ll die and then they’ll be after him. If he does help him, he’ll also die because he has backfire on him and any attempt to get it off will be interrupted.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thomasuwoo

You're talking to someone who takes random peeps and forms a build to win in the tombs.

Ditto.

CaptainGuru · Jul 17, 2005, 11:31 PM // 23:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by KuTeBaka

EVERY single counter you said had to do with a hex, there are hex removals out there, just use one and get a martyr prot monk on your team, hexes and conditions are gone.

OMG so what if 4 eles can take down a warrior, those 4 eles are now easy targets for the other 7 people on the team.

Protection Monks are monk who spells mostly consist of enchantments. If you ACTUALLY read the arguements instead of skim through them, you would see a protection monk would have a hard time being useful because his tactic is to use Nature's Renewal. Unless you are Me/Mo and use spells that can be cast under a second, you're gonna have hard time casting spells outside of condition and hex removers. Protection Monks mostly use enchantments.

KuTeBaka · Jul 17, 2005, 11:34 PM // 23:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by CaptainGuru

Again, you’ve obviously never been up against a spike damage group. Most Lightning spells are 10 energy and lightning spell can be cast within a 1 second. A Me/E with Fast Casting with a rank 5 to 10 can cast those spells almost instantly and they can get up to 49 to 52 energy without enchantments. This means if they are coordinated enough, they can take out 4 to 5 people within 5 to 10 seconds. You speak of Res Signets…by the time you’re ressed by a signet, at least 2 to 3 people are dead in your group cause it takes 4 seconds to res you with a signet

Fertile season, quickening zepher, natures renewal. your out of mana without the attunements, spells cost more and its really hard to spike 700+ life.

OR

A prot monk, casting protective spirit and rof a couple times.

OR

spellbreaker

OR

Obsidian flesh

and so on and so on.

obviously you hae not gone against a good team.

Quote:

Originally Posted by CaptainGuru

In case where you are a warrior/monk draining your gauge can leave you without the ability to heal yourself unless you chain enchant. Also with the energy the mesmer steals from you, he empower his hex spells. So having a non-noob mesmer steal energy from you is no laughing matter.

yea cuz everybody knows that we drain the warriors energy first. gee, when you drain the warrior, im pretty sure the monk will have enough mana to heal him for a bit or till he gets enough mana to remove the hex.

Quote:

Originally Posted by CaptainGuru

Two to three monks (Third being a protection monk), but this doesn’t stop teams from losing. Most of the teammates will aim for one monk and the mesmer will aim for the second. The first monk has 50/50 chance of getting away if no one has a snare. The second monk won’t be so lucky because his hand will be forced because the other monk will need healing. If he doesn’t heal his monk teammate, he’ll die and then they’ll be after him. If he does help him, he’ll also die because he has backfire on him and any attempt to get it off will be interrupted.

Ditto.

isnt the mesmer busy draining the warrior of his HUGE pool of energy?

CaptainGuru · Jul 17, 2005, 11:51 PM // 23:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by KuTeBaka

Fertile season, quickening zepher, natures renewal. your out of mana without the attunements, spells cost more and its really hard to spike 700+ life.

You would have to get at least halfway to their base (Most non-noob Els don't move) to do this. As soon as you get close, you'll drop dead.

Quote:

Originally Posted by KuTeBaka

OR

A prot monk, casting protective spirit and rof a couple times.

OR

spellbreaker

OR

Obsidian flesh

and so on and so on.

obviously you hae not gone against a good team.

You can stop theory fighting, apparent you haven't been in any good fights. Just by your random assumption, I can tell you've never been up against a serious team. YOU ARE AWARE IN ALL YOUR GLORY AND WISDOM that the skills you've pointed out are all enchantments, right? Nature's Renewal removes enchantments and Hexes, and make it hard for spellcasters to use hexes or enchantments.

Zephyr only adds 3 points to their 10 for 13 and since if they are mesmer/elementalist they use inspiration spells to steal energy. Lastly, Any elementalist is not going to let those spirit stay there and put them at a disadvantage. Also if you have any casters on your, it will backfire in their faces too.

Quote:

Originally Posted by KuTeBaka

yea cuz everybody knows that we drain the warriors energy first. gee, when you drain the warrior, im pretty sure the monk will have enough mana to heal him for a bit or till he gets enough mana to remove the hex.

This during battle, not post battle cause obviously a mesmer only drains when he needs more energy.

Thomasuwoo · Jul 18, 2005, 06:49 PM // 18:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by CaptainGuru

You would have to get at least halfway to their base (Most non-noob Els don't move) to do this. As soon as you get close, you'll drop dead.

Somebody isn't familiar with spirt ranges. They are collosal my friend. Funny that I've been tombsing for months now and never come across a good spike team. Damn I'm lucky.

Quote:

Originally Posted by CaptainGuru

You can stop theory fighting, apparent you haven't been in any good fights. Just by your random assumption, I can tell you've never been up against a serious team. YOU ARE AWARE IN ALL YOUR GLORY AND WISDOM that the skills you've pointed out are all enchantments, right? Nature's Renewal removes enchantments and Hexes, and make it hard for spellcasters to use hexes or enchantments.

And in all your glory I'm sure you understand the difference between OR and AND.

Quote:

Originally Posted by CaptainGuru

Zephyr only adds 3 points to their 10 for 13 and since if they are mesmer/elementalist they use inspiration spells to steal energy. Lastly, Any elementalist is not going to let those spirit stay there and put them at a disadvantage. Also if you have any casters on your, it will backfire in their faces too.

So now they're not even spiking players but sprits! EVERYTHING in this game can be counted guru. Spike eles are just flavor of the month and the longer they stay that way the better. Makes things alot easier for us with actually stratagies out their to predict what we'll be up against.

Say what you will, but every class has thier use in PvP. Warriors are no exception.